Author Topic: 1940 Real C12 a 350cc version of the C10  (Read 4586 times)

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Offline Sprocketman

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1940 Real C12 a 350cc version of the C10
« on: November 11, 2017, 12:33:03 pm »
Don't think we haven't noticed, Owen. The subtle change in the signature, the register entry? Seems a bit extreme selling your house to get one though!
Malcolm.


Owen,
I've split this from House hunting as its gone off on its own subject.
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 09:46:49 pm by Owen »

Offline MilitaryRon

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Re: Re:Real C12 Purchase
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2017, 06:11:10 am »
No I don't want Owen's. I sold that one to Ray in the first place. It's the one next to his shiny C12 in the 2018 calendar picture for January that looks more interesting to me. :)

There were just 35 real C12's supplied under an official military contract (to the admiralty) and I doubt there is a hope in Hell of finding one?

There were also 530 specially prepared WD C11's that were destined for India. Since to my knowledge none of them (or parts of) have ever come to light, I can only assume that the ship carrying them, sank  ??? Especially as the Indians are well renown for keeping vehicles and equipment going till the very last breath. Ron

Offline timsdad

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Re: Re:Real C12 Purchase
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2017, 08:22:34 am »
This was the collection of Real C12s before I broke up the set.

I'm hoping Owen will get his back on the road before I'd have had time to start it!


Ray

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Offline Owen

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Re: Re:Real C12 Purchase
« Reply #3 on: November 12, 2017, 09:32:53 am »
Was the 35 military versions in addition to the 250 or so real C12's?
1940 C12 (350cc)
1945 C10 & C11
1953 C10 & C11
Anyone want a B20 in need of a lot of tlc

Offline MilitaryRon

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Re: Re:Real C12 Purchase
« Reply #4 on: November 12, 2017, 04:13:09 pm »
Owen the BSA ledger shows real C12's in engine number sequence from 101- 439 with a few gaps. The 35 Admiralty bikes are taken from the end of these  (401-439 with gaps)  Then there are 4 more out of sequence with a further 9 supplied to the Dublin PO in 1941. So without doing a strict count there were around 400 built. Ron

Offline Owen

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Re: Re:Real C12 Purchase
« Reply #5 on: November 12, 2017, 07:58:19 pm »
Don't forget the usual engine/frame numbers usually start from 101? which would make the number around 300 or so.
1940 C12 (350cc)
1945 C10 & C11
1953 C10 & C11
Anyone want a B20 in need of a lot of tlc

Offline MilitaryRon

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Re: Re:Real C12 Purchase
« Reply #6 on: November 12, 2017, 09:21:34 pm »
Quite right Owen. I just looked at my jottings and somehow I deducted 100 from 439 and came up with 399 :-[. One day I'll count the total properly. But yes around 300 of them.  Ron

PS I just counted the gaps =15 so I calculate a total of 337.  Of course the frame numbers are all over the place because as you know, the same frames were used on C10's and C11's
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 09:42:45 pm by MilitaryRon »

Offline timsdad

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Re: Real C12 Purchase
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 08:07:19 am »
I've done extensive research of these bikes and, from memory because my file is not to hand, there was a total of 248 C12 350s built. Two batches went direct to the Admiralty, totalling 38, one to the Forestry Commission and the rest were delivered to BSA dealers. Around half of these went to UK dealers and the rest abroad. Many of these appear to have been taken from the dealerships for military and other purposes.

I think this was because civilians needed some sort of permission to buy a bike for private use during the hostilities.

Ray
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Offline MilitaryRon

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Re: Real C12 Purchase
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2017, 08:59:11 am »
Well I've just double checked the ledger and stand by my calculations. C12 engine numbers listed with all their destinations were 101 to 439 minus the 15 missing engines = 324 plus the 4 late entries, plus the 9 very late entries to the Dublin post office = 337.

The Admiralty received engine numbers 401 - 413 416 -436 and 439 total 35. Engine 438 went to the Forestry Commission. 

I can only assume that the 15 missing engines were reserved as spare engines or replacements for some that went wrong or got damaged?

I've never seen a picture of an impressed C12 .... still looking to find one. Impressed bikes would have usually had their census number stamped into the crankcase.

A lot of these smaller bikes would have been destined for other essential services. fire, gas, water, electric, police, doctors, home-guard etc etc and therefore not allocated any WO census numbers.
 
I have actually seen a 1940 C11 with a brass plate attached to the rear mudguard which read " Presented to the Isle of Wight Home-guard by BSA"  Maybe a few more went that way?

Ron   

Ron
« Last Edit: November 13, 2017, 09:31:48 am by MilitaryRon »

Offline Owen

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1940 Real C12 a 350cc version of the C10
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2017, 09:09:09 am »
I have started this to start a technical talk about the 1940 Real C12. Why do I and others call it the real C12. Because it was the first model to be called that.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 02:55:54 pm by Owen »
1940 C12 (350cc)
1945 C10 & C11
1953 C10 & C11
Anyone want a B20 in need of a lot of tlc

Offline timsdad

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Re: 1940 Real C12
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2017, 02:16:29 pm »
I think, if you check back, I coined the term 'Real C12' several years ago to differentiate them from the 250 model and upset Woodie in the process. He took offence because he had a 1956 'unreal' one!

Ray
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Offline Owen

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Re: 1940 Real C12 a 350cc version of the C10
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2018, 10:51:32 pm »
Help needed to find the specification/sizes for the inlet and exhaust valves for my Real C12 sv . Has anyone got an old valve book that they can give me the specifications so i can search alternative suppliers for: -
Inlet      29-2591 yes I can get this on from Draganfly.
Exhaust 29-2592 I know Cornucopia say the have one.

« Last Edit: January 20, 2018, 10:56:50 pm by Owen »
1940 C12 (350cc)
1945 C10 & C11
1953 C10 & C11
Anyone want a B20 in need of a lot of tlc

Offline timsdad

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Re: 1940 Real C12 a 350cc version of the C10
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2018, 09:24:29 am »
I got a new pair of stainless valves from some specialist who advertised in The Old Crap Mart, Owen. I'll see if I can turn up who it was.

I'd previously, when rebuilding the bike, got a pair from Draganfly but these just kept recessing and losing clearance. Apparently, these first ones from Bungay were just original, standard offerings for several models from that sort of period but couldn't cope with lead-free fuel.

The stainless ones were also old, unused stock but they had no idea what material they were, only that they were not attracted to a strong magnet. They also lost clearance a few times very quickly but have been fine since I started using lead replacement additive out of desperation.  The first pair I fitted may have been ok with additive as that stuff really does do what it says on the bottle - I used Morris stuff for a few years then went onto Wynnes when my local motor factor changed suppliers.


Ray
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Offline hampshirebiker

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Re: 1940 Real C12 a 350cc version of the C10
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2018, 09:49:58 am »
Just wondering ( if you have sources for the valves) why you need an alternative supplier.
Postal - Liphook Hants - But just into West Sussex.

Offline Owen

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Re: 1940 Real C12 a 350cc version of the C10
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2018, 10:00:06 am »
As Ray says, some of the older suppliers have dubious stock and I would rather pay a little more for Good quality parts that will last. I'm also trying to get as much technical information for C parts as possible so bits can be made to keep them going.
1940 C12 (350cc)
1945 C10 & C11
1953 C10 & C11
Anyone want a B20 in need of a lot of tlc