Author Topic: C11G clutch and kickstart  (Read 991 times)

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Offline elevensies

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C11G clutch and kickstart
« on: March 06, 2019, 06:04:10 pm »
hi all,
just started re commissioning the c11 for riding, its been stood a while dry, so all fresh new oil (20/50 mineral) and gearbox 80/90

all good so far, fitted a anti sumping valve so very little leaking

after a number of odd things (riders left footpeg spinning, fuel tap leaking very badly) got the bike running sweet, started after a few kicks, ticking over happily. until i engaged a gear..clunk cut out,

stripped clutch plates out and cleaned them up, new cable, and now a nice feeling clutch, apart from,

wont engage a gear
kickstart spins freely down with no pressure
kickstart spins clutches but wont engage engine, feels like i have no compression

hope this makes sense

11's
« Last Edit: March 07, 2019, 01:20:36 pm by Owen »

Online Owen

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2019, 06:31:56 pm »
80/90 oil in the gearbox is too heavy.  Try 20/50 or straight 50.
You should not need an anti sump valve if the ball valve is seated correctly.
Foot rest should be locating on hexagon rod.
Clutch is either soaked in oil and thus slipping or not enough tension. Try the clutch dry or with atf to the level plug.
1940 C12 (350cc)
1945 C10 & C11
1953 C10 & C11
Anyone want a B20 in need of a lot of tlc

Online chaterlea25

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2019, 08:09:17 pm »
Hi All,
Modern 80/90 has about the same viscosity as straight 50, much thinner than the stuff of our youth  ::)
I have been using gear oil in BSA's for the last 40+ years and it works for me

I wonder did 11's put the clutch back together incorrectly ??
Is there free play at the clutch lever/cable?
Is it a 3 or six spring clutch?

John

Online Owen

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2019, 08:13:33 pm »
Should be a 6 spring for a 1953 C11.
1940 C12 (350cc)
1945 C10 & C11
1953 C10 & C11
Anyone want a B20 in need of a lot of tlc

Offline elevensies

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2019, 11:13:01 pm »
hi all,

yes the footrest needed a new hex bar and foot rest which i dropped on by chance, dragonfly et al said not a chance in hell of finding one ...hmmm
so
its a 3 spring,
plates were cleaned and assembled dry
cover is not back on, so cant fill with oil, seems pointless assembling it only to find same issue.
new cable fitted and around 5 mm free play at lever
and 80/90 gear oil was in gear box not in primary, i used around 100ml 20/50 engine oil just for the chain

my issue isnt the fact the clutch is or isnt, its the fact that the kickstart can be pushed down with your hand, it spins the clutch, but shows no sign of compression.
bear in mind prior to this the engine was running with very good compression at the kickstart.
 i will upload some pics and a vid tomorrow showing the movement.

thanks for the advice guys

Offline elevensies

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2019, 11:26:15 pm »
couple of pics sorry for quality, kinda before and after


Offline timsdad

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2019, 07:30:31 am »
The pressure plate is being held off its seat so the plates are not being squeezed together - it's like the lever is still being held in on the handlebars.

You need to ascertain if it's the cable, inner lever or push rod sticking or if the pressure plate is jamming up when the springs are tightened. I'd say that the spring nuts need removing again, the pressure plate giving a bit of a wriggle while pushing it home onto the other plates and, hopefully, it will click down into place before the springs are tightened again.

It's just a physical problem of something not seating correctly.


Ray
Just a motorcyclist.

Offline timsdad

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2019, 07:34:43 am »
Try it first with the push rod removed, to see if it then turns the engine over on the kickstart.


Ray
Just a motorcyclist.

Offline Brillandy

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2019, 08:30:33 am »
Hi 11's,
Are you saying that when you push the kick start down the primary chain turns the engine but there's no compression?  If so, clearly it's nothing to do with the clutch.

Andy
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Offline timsdad

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2019, 10:03:02 am »
I'm pretty sure he implied that all was fine until he stalled the motor due to the clutch plates being glued together from standing. This a common occurrence that would have righted itself if the clutch lever had been held in for five seconds, with the engine running, before trying again.

Now, after stripping the clutch, something has been re-assembled incorrectly. The plates are now being held apart so the plates slotted to the main-shaft spin on the kick start but the ones splined to the clutch drum don't - like when you're taking the wobble out to get a clean gear change.

Nothing to do with compression, or gearbox oil, or wet-sumping - is it only me getting frustrated?


Ray
Just a motorcyclist.

Offline elevensies

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2019, 10:47:52 am »
Thanks Ray, no your not the olny one getting frustrated..... what started out as a possible clutch sticking issue turned into my kickstart doing its own thing...

Andy, like iv just said it started out as a cluch, but as usual a load of other issues came about.


Right, some great helps there guys thank you,

first job check adjuster on pushrod, and again cable

brill thanks all

Offline Paul S

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2019, 11:11:29 am »
what started out as a possible clutch sticking issue turned into my kickstart doing its own thing...

Remember that the kickstart works though the clutch, so if the clutch is not engaging you will not be able to turn the engine with the kickstart.

Easy way to check if the clutch is engaging/disengaging with the primary chaincase removed is by operating the kickstart while operating the clutch lever, look at the clutch and you can see exactly what is going on.
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Online chaterlea25

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2019, 11:41:31 am »
Hi 11's and All,
On the 3 spring clutch the pressure plate and outer plain plate are spot welded together, the plate will only line up with the inner drum in one position.
Make sure the spring spacers are in place and the spring nuts tightened fully against the spacers

John

Offline Paul S

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2019, 11:51:29 am »
Since my first post it has occurred to me that you may not have had a problem in the first place.

Before starting an old clunker (specially if has been standing a long while) you should pull in the clutch lever and kick the engine over to free the clutch (once freed the kickstart will just operate freely without turning the engine) sometimes it can take quite a few kicks to free the clutch if the bike has stood for a long while, but in extreme cases it my need taking apart before it will free, (that happened to me once with a car)

Once freed the clutch would then operate normally.

I think when you first started the bike and tried to put it into gear, the clutch had not feed itself (the plates stuck together) this would account for the engine stalling with a clunk when you engaged a gear.
Growing old is compulsory, but growing up is optional.
1955 C12
1961 Greeves Scottish
1998 Kawasaki zzr600
1967 Triumph Vitesse 2 ltr convertible
1959 BSA C1000

Offline elevensies

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Re: c11 clutch and kickstart
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2019, 01:07:23 pm »
thanks again guys, iv tried to take a vid, and i can upload it, so...

clutch cable loose, so no pressure on the bar

can hand push down the kickstart, which in turn spins the clutch assembly, (bear in mind i have no physical cable attached at this point, so dont suggest i try pull in the clutch lol )

iv tightened the springs up to equal amounts to the point where the bolt thread is level with adjuster head (flush)

i can manually engage a gear by lifting into 2nd, but wont do 1st??? this now could be yet another issue iv discovered

there is no primary case on, so dont mention oil levels lol

and lastly it really wont kick over the engine......phew

fire and a big hill next i think hahaha its really frustrating sorry guys