Author Topic: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning  (Read 647 times)

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Offline Ginge

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2019, 09:13:47 pm »
Update...

I went for a 15 minute jaunt around the streets running the battery on total loss.  The bike has been cooling for a few days...just need to get time to nip the head back down.  Better compression has created the new problem of clutch slip when kick starting. I thought I'd solved this last year but I'll have to try again.

I am wondering if the clutch slip is a primary case gearing issue.  I have 16 teeth on front engine shaft sprocket ( correct for C10L but fitted to C11 engine which should be 17 teeth) and 43 on the clutch basket sprocket which is normal for C10 and C11.

Surely one tooth on the front wouldn't make that much difference?

On the electrical front the Dynamo is still on the bench but I now have field resistance within spec and I'm making volts when I spin it with a drill. 

I seem to have the reproduction MCR2 as the outer case is not stamped with any Lucas markings.  I reckon I'll fit the DVR2 in it's place and save myself future grief.  So that means a bit of rewiring but it need a tidy up anyway.

The list continues....but it's raining anyway so I'll be in the shed if you need me!
Ginge.

Offline Owen

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2019, 09:53:44 pm »
According to my parts books all dynamo C's had a 16t engine drive sprocket as standard apart from the 350 C12 which had 17t. However the military C11 versions may have had a 17t sprocket  but I don't have a military parts list to confirm. Your clutch slip is probably caused by oil or tension/release issues. Does it slip less or more when it's warmed up? If more then it's probably oil contamination.l, if less then it's probably tension.
1940 C12 (350cc)
1945 C10 & C11
1953 C10 & C11
Anyone want a B20 in need of a lot of tlc

Offline Ginge

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #17 on: January 05, 2019, 11:57:08 pm »
Slips when cold on kickstart.  Doesn’t slip at all when hot or cold when being ridden.

There’s 1/2” play in the primary chain.

I might try running a dry chaincase I think and use a chain wax or grease. I was using ATF but it leaks a bit.

I’ll go back through the clutch set up again.
Ginge.

Offline Owen

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #18 on: January 06, 2019, 07:50:00 am »
Try tightening the clutch tension nuts up a turn or two and see how that works. How much oil do you have in the primary drive?
How many links does the primary chain have?
1/2" is a lot of slack for the chain, I would suggest you reduce that to around 1/4".
1940 C12 (350cc)
1945 C10 & C11
1953 C10 & C11
Anyone want a B20 in need of a lot of tlc

Offline stev60

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #19 on: January 06, 2019, 08:01:05 am »
That problem has just  returned with my C11. motor was reconditioned so comp was high, clutch was all new and worked ok , but slipped till you got used to when to kick,not on compression stroke. Ive been through the adjusting pushrod length,cable length, angle of cable etc, but if its slipping and dry try putting more pressure on the springs makes a harder pull on the hand, simple clutch on these bikes  but they can be  a bastard, depends on state of plates ,ares the chain plate corks ok, good luck

Online timsdad

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2019, 09:26:29 am »
As has been advised, it's just a spring tension problem and/or oiled plates, Ginge. You need to go back to basics and check that the springs are all equal free length. Replace them if there's any doubt, because they're cheap as chips, and, after washing the plates in petrol, and drying, re-assemble and pay good attention to getting the clutch spinning true. Try it on the kick start before you put the casing on and, if it's ok, give all the springs another half a turn just to be sure. If you can pull the lever in easy enough then it'll be fine.

These clutches are trouble-free if put together properly and the same basic clutch is used on a high compression Goldie with a 24 tooth engine sprocket and they don't slip.


Ray
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Offline Ginge

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #21 on: January 06, 2019, 04:57:51 pm »
If I put any more tension on the springs the clutch lever becomes far too heavy.  I’m worried about pulling the cable nipple off.




Ginge.

Offline Owen

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #22 on: January 06, 2019, 05:31:53 pm »
In that case have youokked at the following: -
Clutch cable and it's routing
Clutch actuator angle
How thick the clutch corks are
How flat the corks and plates are (as this directly related to the clutch slipping)
How much oil in the chaincase (try it dry as you suggested earlier)
Where are the nuts on the clutch adjusters in relation to the end of the studs (flush,  threads proud)?
1940 C12 (350cc)
1945 C10 & C11
1953 C10 & C11
Anyone want a B20 in need of a lot of tlc

Offline Ginge

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #23 on: January 07, 2019, 02:46:12 am »
Yes I went through all that last year with help from you Owen and others on the board.

I ended up with a good clutch except for kick starting. Heavy in the lever though.

Six threads showing. I had to wind the springs in to get it to kick over. The clutch works okay with less tension on the springs but I can’t kick it over.

I’ll redo the various steps.
Ginge.

Offline Owen

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #24 on: January 07, 2019, 06:42:50 am »
6 threads is way too much. Ideally there should be 1 to. 2.
J have a C11 with good compression (both valve seats have inserts and rebored) new cork Inserts and springs and all is fine.
1940 C12 (350cc)
1945 C10 & C11
1953 C10 & C11
Anyone want a B20 in need of a lot of tlc

Offline stev60

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #25 on: January 07, 2019, 07:16:46 am »
In the few years ive been in this forum ive seen a lot of  comments on the six spring clutch, i have 3 bikes using this clutch , I think its actually a good setup but takes time to get right, on two bikes im using two plates instead of one, there is room, just. Its one of these that has started slipping , pulled it all apart and took end
float out of gearbox at same time, something had locked up at first I thought motor had seized, but with primary chain off it turns ok. Put clutch back tomorrow , everything looks fine , odd with primary chain on wont turn, with it off , motor turns and so does transmission, the kickstart  quadrant and pinion are both in top condition, always been a first time starter and engages  very quickly

Online timsdad

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #26 on: January 07, 2019, 09:06:56 am »
In over fifty years of using these clutches in all the different models, I have no problem with them. If mine start to slip for any reason I just fix them and it's usually oil. A problem I've found these days is crap replacement springs that don't match with each other in length and have doubtful quality tension-wise. There are also two different lengths of spring for these early clutches so you have to make sure you have the correct ones and that they all match in length and tension. They need tightening up just enough to hold a fat bloke up on the kick starter, then tighten up odd ones so it all spins free, get the angles and routing right on the cable to lighten things up as much as possible and it'll be fine.

Too many folk blame the clutch design when it's just rubbishy modern spare parts or lack of understanding.


Ray
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Offline stev60

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #27 on: January 07, 2019, 09:16:11 am »
I agree with springs, I bought two sets, four were longer than the rest, and one would have to wonder about equal tension, it would be interesting if others have noticed this, but I have found the surflex plates prefer to be dry

Online timsdad

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2019, 02:13:30 pm »
I've been running them in BSAs and Triumphs since the '60s, Steve, and find them no more affected by oil, or lack of it, than cork plates. I don't think the fibre material is much different to that used on Japanese or other European bikes.

Ray
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Offline ianinglis

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Re: Southern Hemisphere recommissioning
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2019, 04:42:04 pm »
i would also look at changing the springs - my old C10L has an extra plate and is as light as a feather (and doesnt slip with ATF in the casing) although this has the later 3 spring type


ian
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