BSA C10 C11 C12

BSA C10 C11 C12 Forum => Technical Section => Topic started by: FAA891 on July 23, 2020, 09:43:52 pm

Title: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: FAA891 on July 23, 2020, 09:43:52 pm
Evening All,

My mate was checking over my C.11 and commented about the speedo in the tank saying that it wasn't original. Its been there as long as I've had it, since the 70's. So my speedo goes up to 120mph. He said that that was a bit optimistic (agreed) and showed me the speedo he has on his wartime Ariel 350, also a Smiths which goes up to 80 mph.
I'm sending a pic of both and I would be grateful to anyone who can throw some light on this.
Cheers,

Pete
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: ROB KEMP on July 23, 2020, 10:24:40 pm
i think it should be 80mph but your 120mph speedo is worth double or treble what a 80mph cost .
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: Owen on July 24, 2020, 06:27:26 am
Your bike would have been fitted with one of the following dependant on which country it was going: S/467/9/L for 80 mph or S467/13/L for 130 kph.
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: timsdad on July 24, 2020, 06:50:36 am
Yes, it should be an 80 mph one but there's little difference in the value. Ian  Bartram, and all the other speedo specialists, can convert from one to the other with no problem.


Ray
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: donkey on July 24, 2020, 08:38:33 am
I thought the original 80/85 mph speedometers were fetching big money sometimes more than 120 mph ones
donkey.
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: Tman on July 24, 2020, 09:33:58 am
Maybe, but only if the buyers don't realise that it's an easy conversion job for a speedo reconditioner.
Dave Woods (as i recall) used to offer it as part of the service for old speedos.
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: sidevalve on July 24, 2020, 11:46:05 am
Don't forget BSA were prone to using "what was in the parts bin" on the day. For many small items there doesn't seem to be a definite right or wrong
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: Owen on July 24, 2020, 12:16:43 pm
I would love to know the facts behind the statement  "what was in the parts bin" on the day?
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: BSAc11g on July 24, 2020, 12:50:15 pm
The hard speedos to find are the D shaped one.
Because they were a penny a pound, the Chronometric repairers bought them by the bucket load
And because Vincient owners would pay more for a speedo that a Bantam owner would most got fitted into round cases to the point that D cases are now one of the rarest parts.
In fact the only Bantam ( or C 10L ) part that is more expensive than it's Gold Star equivalent.
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: FAA891 on July 24, 2020, 04:18:25 pm
Gentlemen, thanks one and all. Pete
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: sidevalve on July 24, 2020, 04:38:36 pm
just going on what I have observed on road tests from the 50's in different magazines - one has one speedo the other bike had a different one [lots of firms seemed to do it with bought in bits] plus an article written [in the 70's] by a retired BSA employee who said they used whatever was available. Some M20's even had 120mph speedo's and the fact that my bsa manuals show both the D shaped and round speedo's for my C12
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: camman3 on July 24, 2020, 05:22:03 pm
Triumph switched from Smiths to Verglia...and back again I think  :-\...I do know the T140 came with either.
My '80 American spec T140 had the Verglia's fitted
Graham
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: Tman on July 24, 2020, 05:35:10 pm
The Co-operative fitted Veglias when they were short of money. They weren't termed "Vague-lias" for nothing.. ;)
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: ROB KEMP on July 24, 2020, 08:03:51 pm
MY contribution was based on very recent e bay searching for a speedo for my c11 and 80mph speedos were definately a lot cheaper than 120mph ones but i can see that if your going to buy one from a reconditioner the repair costs would be similar .
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: timsdad on July 25, 2020, 08:45:04 am
I have a few clocks on the shelf that I've had for many years, including brand new, unused, original Smith's magnetic speedo's and rev counters, bought in the '70s, and an unused, NOS  D shaped chronometric with just a mile on the milometer. And there's nothing wrong with magnetic Veglia clocks, I've never had any problems with them on Italian bikes or Triumphs.

They're there 'just in case' but I'm surprised the little D shaped speedo is worth more than sixty quid - they must have gone up a lot in the last couple of years. I swapped a six-spring A10 clutch for it many years ago to help a mate out.


Ray
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: camman3 on July 25, 2020, 09:16:32 am
The Co-operative fitted Veglias when they were short of money. They weren't termed "Vague-lias" for nothing.. ;)

Mine never did anything wrong and seemed quite accurate, withstanding the T140 many vibrations  ??? with no problem...in their rubber mounting rings, so you could actually read them :)
Graham
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: haddy on July 25, 2020, 11:08:02 am
The have 80mph speedos.I just ordered on on the net $50 looks the part dont care if it works just something to fill the hole.I got a quote to repair one $450.The last bike i restored a bantam D speedo i got a sticker made for the dial $80 minimum charge. So the repo is a bargain
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: haddy on July 25, 2020, 01:17:45 pm
speedo sticker
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: rogerinfrance on July 26, 2020, 07:39:00 pm
Did no one notice that is a Jaeger. This is the speedo out of an expensive car and ones with the Jaeger mark are normally expensive. It certainly is not original!
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: Tman on July 26, 2020, 09:30:29 pm
It may be a Jaeger patent but it's a Smiths Chronometric and almost certainly intended for a bike.
Car instruments have similar faces but the case is more rounded at the back and probably impossible to fit into a tank, as here.
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: timsdad on July 27, 2020, 07:30:20 am
Jaeger and Smith's chronometric speedos are identical, and were made under licence, I think, so are interchangeable.

Several years ago I had a Matchless with a Jaeger speedo on it that Ian Bartrum just fitted a new Smith's face card to when he repaired it because the needle kept sticking. He told me they were exactly the same when I asked him if the Jaeger was rarer and more valuable.


Ray
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: rogerinfrance on July 27, 2020, 07:56:59 am
Yes, I know, but Smiths made them uner a licence to a Jaeger design and it is the genuine face plate that made it more rare ( That is a stupid statement more rare thats like saying more less) Anyway apparently in certain cars to have the correct speedo face is worth a lot of money, (or so I was told). Anyway they certainly were not fitted to BSA C11 or I believe apart from some Brough not fitted with the large speedo, any motorcycles. Personally, I would put it on ebay etc and get a correct one for the bike. He may even make a bob or 3. Saddle, have not photographed it yet. Niggle maybe that the two holes at the front are missing something.
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: craigc11g on July 27, 2020, 08:17:25 am
have a few different speedos fitted to british bikes and the most accurate in mph is one from a morris car I think  , its exactly the same size as a smiths crono ,  fitted it some years ago after one went missing at a bike event . still fitted trip does not work
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: donkey on August 01, 2020, 06:22:31 pm
 The prices some folk are asking for on the likes of the old e bay are quite HIGH for smiths dials, I have a 80mph smiths that has Jager Patent + the serial numbers on the face & a 120mph that has just got Smiths and the serial numbers on the face that are still in very good condition & working perfectly well as they were serviced/checked a few years ago
donkey
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: timsdad on August 02, 2020, 08:49:15 am
When the clocks are renovated, Donkey, they always fit new facias into them unless you tell them not to. The repairer will have a stack of these new cards for the different types of clock faces, all as original and complete with part numbers. The only difference is that the numbers don't fall off the new ones.

I like to keep mine oily-rag original if possible but I've got a couple of renovated Smith's Chronos on the shelf that have new facias because the old ones were too bad to re-use. There's a 120 mph and an 80 mph and they just look like original, new Smith's speedos.


Ray
Title: Re: The right speedo in the tank
Post by: donkey on August 02, 2020, 01:59:01 pm
Ray,
The speedometers I have were just light serviced checked cleaned not refurbished or rebuilt no parts were changed so they are still original
donkey